整体生活方式是一种没有能量耗散的生活方式
K: You see Pupul holistic implies a very sane mind and body, a clear capacity to think, and also it means holy, sacred; all that is implied in that word `holistic'.
K：你看普普尔，整体意味着非常健全的身心，清晰的思考能力，也意味着神圣； “整体”这个词所暗示的一切。
Now, I am asking: `Is there an energy which is never dissipated, which you want to draw from?' There is dissipation when it is not holistic.
现在，我在问：“有没有一种永不耗散的能量，你想从中汲取什么？”当它不是整体时，就会有耗散。
A holistic way of life is one in which there is no dissipation of energy.
整体的生活方式是一种没有能量耗散的生活方式。
A non-holistic way of living in dissipation of energy.
非整体的生活方式是一种在能量耗散中的生活方式。
P: What is the relationship of the holistic and the non-holistic to the brain cells?
P：整体与非整体与脑细胞的关系是什么？
K: There is no relationship to the brain cells.
K：和脑细胞没有关系。
Let us look at it.
让我们看看吧。
I want to be quite clear that we understand the meaning of that word `holistic'.
我想非常清楚我们理解“整体”这个词的含义。
It means complete, whole, harmony, no disintegration, no fragmentation.
它代表完整、整体、和谐、不衰败、不分裂。
That is the holistic life.
那是整体的生活。
That is endless energy.
那是无穷无尽的能量。
The non-holistic life, the fragmented life, is a wastage of energy.
非整体的生活，支离破碎的生活，是一种能量的浪费。
When there is a feeling of the whole, there is no `I'.
有整体感的时候，就没有'我’。
The other is the movement of thought, of the past, of time; that is our life, our daily life, and that life is reward and punishment and the continuous search for satisfaction.
另一个是思想的运动，过去的，时间的；那就是我们的生活，我们的日常生活，而生活就是奖惩和对满足的不断追求。
P: Sir, the holistic is held in the brain cells.
P：先生，整体在脑细胞中。
That is, it throws up responses, challenges.
也就是说，它会引发响应、挑战。
The non-holistic is held in the brain cells.
非整体性存在于脑细胞中。
It is the whole stream of the past meeting the challenge.
它是过去在迎接挑战的全部流。
Now, what relationship has the holistic to the brain cells and the senses?
现在，整体与脑细胞和感官有什么关系？
K: Have you understood the question, Doctor?
K：你明白问题了吗，博士？
DS: Her question is: What is the relationship of this holistic state in the brain to memory and the past and the senses?
DS：她的问题是：大脑中的这种整体状态与记忆、过去和感官有什么关系？
K: No, no. You haven't listened.
K：不，不。你没在听。
P: I said there are two states, the holistic and the non-holistic.
P：我说过有两种状态，整体的和非整体的。
The non-holistic is definitely held in the brain cells because it is the stream of the past held in the brain cells, challenged and giving momentum.
非整体性肯定在脑细胞中，因为它是脑细胞中保持的过去的流，受到挑战并给予动力。
I am asking what is the relationship of the holistic to the brain cells and to the senses?
我在问整体与脑细胞和感官的关系是什么？
DS: What do you mean by the senses?
DS：感官是什么意思？
P: Listening, seeing, tasting...
P：听，看，尝...
DS: Can I go into that?
DS：我可以进入吗？
I think if there were something in what we were saying, there would be a different relationship of such part functions in the holistic state.
我认为如果我们所说的有什么，那么在整体状态下这些部分功能会有不同的关系。
They are not merely part functioning but functioning as part of the holistic state, whereas in the dissipation of energy and fragmentation, it begins to function as isolated centres.
它们不仅是部分功能，而且是整体状态的一部分，而在能量和碎片的耗散中，它开始作为孤立的中心发挥作用。
K: Sir, her question is very simple.
K：先生，她的问题很简单。
Our brain cells now contain the past, memory, experience, knowledge of millennia, and those brain cells are not holistic.
我们的脑细胞现在包含了过去、记忆、经验、千年的知识，而那些脑细胞并不是整体的。
DS: Yes, they are separate cells.
DS：是的，它们是单独的单元格。
K: They are not holistic.
K：它们不是整体的。
Stick to that.
继续刚才的那个。
She says the brain cells now are conditioned to a non-holistic way of living.
她说脑细胞现在已经适应了一种非整体的生活方式。
What takes place in the brain cells when there is a holistic way?
当有一个整体的方式时，脑细胞中会发生什么？
That is her question.
这是她的问题。
DS: I would put it differently.
DS：我会换一种说法。
I would say: `What takes place in the relationship to the brain cells in the holistic state of perception?'
我会说：`在整体感知状态下，与脑细胞的关系发生了什么？
K: I am going to answer that question.
K：我要回答这个问题。
Does the holistic brain contain the past and therefore can the past be used holistically?
整体大脑是否包含过去，因此过去可以被整体使用吗？
Because it is whole, it contains the part, but the part cannot contain the whole.
因为它是整体，它包含了部分，但部分不能包含整体。
Therefore, when there is the operation of the part, there is dissipation of energy.
因此，有部分在运转时，就有能量耗散。
P: After going through all this, we have come to this point.
P：经历了这一切，我们走到了这一步。
K: Yes.
K：是的。
A marvellous point.
一个了不起的观点。
Stick to it.
坚持下去。
P: What is then its place in the brain which is the structure of the human mind?
P：那么它在大脑中的位置是什么，即人类思维的结构？
K: We know only the non-holistic way of living, keep to that.
K：我们只知道非整体的生活方式，请继续下去。
That is the fact, that we live non-holistically, fragmentarily.
这是事实，我们生活得不完整，碎片化。
That is our actual life and that is a wastage of energy.
那是我们的现实生活，那是一种能量的浪费。
We see also that there is contradiction, there is battle.
我们也看到有矛盾，有斗争。
All that is a wastage of energy.
所有这些都是在浪费能量。
Now, we are asking: `Is there a way of living which is not a wastage of energy?'
现在，我们要问：“有没有一种不浪费能量的生活方式？”
We live a non-holistic way of life, a fragmentary life, a broken life.
我们过着一种非整体的生活方式，一种支离破碎的生活。
You understand what I mean by broken, saying something, doing something else, a life that is contradictory, comparative, imitative, conforming, having moments of silence.
你明白我所说的破碎、说一套、做一套、一种矛盾的、比较的、模仿的、顺从的、有片刻寂静的生活是什么意思。
It is a fragmentary way of living, a non-holistic way, that is all we know.
这是一种支离破碎的生活方式，一种非整体的生活方式，这就是我们所知道的。
And somebody says: Is there an energy which is not wasted?
有人说：有没有不浪费的能量？
And with that question let us investigate it to see if it is possible to end this way of living.
带着这个问题，让我们调查一下，看看是否有可能结束这种生活方式。
P: But I have asked another question, and you have still not answered that.
P：但是我又问了一个问题，你还是没有回答。
K: I am coming to that.
K：我现在来回答。
That is a very difficult question to answer which is: one lives a non-holistic life, which is a constant seepage of energy, a wastage of energy.
那是一个很难回答的问题，那就是：一个人过着非整体的生活，这是一种能量的不断渗漏，一种能量的浪费。
The brain is conditioned to that.
大脑已经习惯了。
One sees that actually.
一个人确实看到了这一点。
Then one asks: Is it possible to live a life which is not that?
然后有人问：有可能过一种不是那样的生活吗？
Right?
对吗？
Q: Not always, sir, that is what we are investigating.
问：并非总是如此，先生，这就是我们正在调查的内容。
Whether that breath of freedom could be a totality.
这种自由的气息是否可以成为一种整体。
K: No, it can never be totality, because it comes and goes.
K：不，它永远不可能是整体，因为它来来去去。
Anything that comes and goes involves time.
任何来来去去的东西都涉及时间。
Time involves a fragmentary way of living.
时间涉及一种碎片化的生活方式。
Therefore, it is not whole.
因此，它不是完整的。
Look, we live a non-holistic life.
看，我们过着非整体的生活。
The brain is conditioned to that.
大脑已经习惯了。
Occasionally, I may have a flair of freedom but that flair of freedom is still within the field of time.
偶尔，我可能有一种自由的天赋，但这种自由的天赋仍在时间领域内。
Therefore, that flair is still a fragment.
因此，这种天赋仍然是一个碎片。
Now, can the brain that is conditioned to that, a non-holistic way of living, can that brain so completely transform itself that it no longer lives the way of conditioning?
现在，受这种限制的大脑，一种非整体的生活方式，能不能完全改变自己，使其不再以这种方式生活？
That is the question.
就是那个问题。
DS: My response to that is: Here you are in a state of fragmentation; here you are in a state of dissipation of energy.
DS：我的回答是：你现在处于分裂的状态；在这里，您处于能量耗散状态。
And there you are looking for satisfaction.
你正在寻找满足。
K: No, I am not.
K：不，我没有。
I am saying this is a wastage of energy.
我是说这是一种能量浪费。
DS: That is all we know and nothing else.
DS：这就是我们所知道的，仅此而已。
K: Yes.
K：是的。
Nothing else.
没有其他的。
So, the brain says: All right, I see that.' Then it asks the question: Is it possible to change all this?'
所以，大脑说：“好吧，我明白了。”然后它提出了一个问题：“这一切有可能改变吗？”
DS: I wonder whether the brain can ask it.
DS：不知道大脑能不能问出来。
K: I am asking it.
K：我在问。
Therefore, if one brain asks it, the other brain must ask it too.
因此，如果一个大脑问它，另一个大脑也必须问它。
This is not based on satisfaction.
这不是基于满意。
DS: Could you say anything about how you can ask the question about what you state without seeking satisfaction?
DS：您能谈谈如何在不寻求满意的情况下提出有关您陈述的问题吗？
K: It can be asked because the brain has realized for itself the game it has been playing.
K：可以这么问，因为大脑已经意识到它一直在玩的游戏。
DS: So, how is the brain to raise the question?
DS：那么，提出问题的大脑是怎样的？
K: It is asking it, because it says, I am seeing through that.' Now, it says: Is there a way of living which is non-fragmentary, which is holistic?'
K：它在问它，因为它说，'我看穿了它。'现在，它说：“有没有一种生活方式是非碎片化的，是整体的？”
S: And that question is as holistic as any.
S：这个问题和任何问题一样全面。
K; No, not yet.
K；还没有。
DS: That is what I am having trouble with - where that question comes from.
DS：这就是我遇到的问题 - 这个问题来自哪里。
You say it is not seeking satisfaction, it is not holistic.
你说不是追求满足，不是整体。
Then, what brain is producing this question?
然后，是什么大脑产生了这个问题？
K: The brain which says: `I see very clearly the waste of energy'.
K：大脑说：“我很清楚地看到了能源的浪费”。
P: The very fact of your saying that the brain is seeing through the whole problem of fragmentation...
P：你所说的大脑正在看穿整个碎片问题的事实......
K: Is the ending of it.
K：是它的结局。
P: Is that holistic?
P：那是整体的吗？
K: The ending of it, that is holistic.
K：它的结局，那是整体的。
P: The ending is the very seeing of fragmentation.
P：结局就是分崩离析。
DS: Is that holistic?
DS：那是整体的吗？
K: That is holistic.
K：这是整体的。
But she asked a much more complex question in regard to the holistic brain which contains the past, the totality of the past, the essence of the past, the juice of it, sucking in everything of the past.
但她问了一个更复杂的问题，关于包含过去的整体大脑，过去的整体，过去的本质，它的汁液，吸收过去的一切。
What does that mean?
那是什么意思？
The past is nothing, but such a brain can use the past.
过去不算什么，但这样的大脑可以利用过去。
I wonder if you follow this.
我想知道你是否跟上这个。
My concern is with one's life, actual, daily, fragmentary, stupid life.
我关心的是一个人的生活，实际的、日常的、零碎的、愚蠢的生活。
And I say, `Can that be transformed?' Not into greater satisfaction.
我说，'这可以改变吗？'没有变成更大的满足。
Can that structure end itself?
那个结构可以结束吗？
Not by an imposition of something higher which is just another trick.
不是强加一些更高的东西，那只是另一个诡计。
I say if you are capable of observing without the observer, the brain can transform itself.
我说如果你能够在没有观察者的情况下观察，大脑可以改变它自己。
That is meditation.
那就是冥想。
Sir, the essence is the whole.
先生，它本质就是整体。
In fragmentation, there is no essence of anything.
在碎片化中，没有任何事物的本质。
Exploration into Insight, Chapter 13, 'The Brain Cells and the Holistic State'
探究出洞察力，第13章，'脑细胞与大脑整体状态'